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Postby Spent » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:42 pm

gills wrote:premise one is already disproven by the history of indigenous peoples in North America.

you can order volume 2 from me, but it's gonna come on a truck.

Funny how these viewpoints are similar to the notion of 'the rapture'.

I want to do something in life other than wait for my death.


I think Jensen would argue that indigenous people were not 'civilized' in the sense that we are. They were above and beyond it.

I also know that he is not about waiting for death either. He has an intense love of life and nature. He simply wants civilization to collapse (and hopes people ake action to speed this up) so life can thrive and yes he is aware that will probably mean lots of death in the process, but ultimately less suffering than if we continue the way we are.

He is actually involved in lots of 'reformist' stuff and not busy waiting for the collapse and spends most of his time working on Salmon and forest issues in Humboldt County. Far from 'fatalistic' or 'defeatist.'

Disclaimer: When I went to see him speak he was drinking water from a plastic bottle. No one is immune from this crap until it is dismantled.
First Gay Marriage, then legal weed and now a goddamn skatepark in PC.
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Postby gills » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:51 pm

Okay then. But it seems somewhat semantically convenient to be able to determine what the word civilization means when applied to a variety of contexts.
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Postby Spent » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:57 pm

i think Jensen and his ilk would describe 'pre-civilized' people as pre-agriculture or pre-domestication. ie. they moved with the seasons and if they did farm it was seasonal and temporary and not exhaustive on the land.

amongst the Primitivst Mileu, as I understand it, that is how they define 'uncivilized.'
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Postby Spent » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:03 pm

http://www.inthewake.org

Taking various anthropological and historical definitions into account, we can come up with some common properties of civilizations (as opposed to indigenous groups).

People live in permanent settlements, and a significant number of them in cities.
The society depends on large-scale agriculture (which is needed to support dense, non-food-growing urban populations).
The society has rulers and some form of "aristocracy" with centralized political, economic, and military power, who exist by exploiting the mass of people.
The elite (and possibly others) use writing and numbers to keep track of commodities, the spoils of war, and so on.
There is slavery and forced labour either by the direct use of physical violence, or by economic coercion and violence (through which people are systematically deprived of choices outside the wage economy).
There are large armies and institutionalized warfare.
Production is mechanized, either through physical machines or the use of humans as though they were machines (this point will be expanded on in other writings here soon).
Large, complex institutions exist to mediate and control the behaviour of people, through as their learning and worldview (schools and churches), as well as their relationships with each other, with the unknown, and with the nature world (churches and organized religion).
Anthropologist Stanley Diamond recognized the common thread in all of these attributes when he wrote; "Civilization originates in conquest abroad and repression at home." [9]
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Postby gills » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:25 pm

OP IVY:

Theres a war comming down between my brothers and I
I don't want no war going down, going down tonight

Stop this war
Stop this war

Civilization ha I call it as I see it
I call this BS you know, I still cannot believe it
Our evolution now has gone the way of hate
A world evolved, resolved in this stupid fate

Stop this war
Stop this war

All so different yeah, I say were all the same
All caught you know, in the division game
Self destruction, fast impending like a bullet
No one can stop it, once its fired no one can control it

Stop this war
Stop this war

A final word, wait, it's not a call to action
We aint no sect, no, this aint no freakin faction
Unity, unity, unity, you've heard it all before
This time it's not exclusive, we want to stop a war

Stop this war
Stop this war

Aint nothing wrong with another unity song
Aint nothing wrong with another unity song
Aint nothing wrong
Aint nothing wrong
Aint nothing wrong
Aint nothing wrong with a unity song

Stop this war
Stop this war

Unity, as one stand together
Unity, evolution's gonna come, rrright
Unity, as one stand together
Unity, evolution's gonna come
Unity, as one stand together
Unity, evolution's gonna come
Unity, as one stand together
Unity, evolution's gonna come
gills
 

Postby Spent » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:44 pm

Crass, 'Big A, Little A

Big A little A bouncing B
The sytem might have got you but it won't get me
1 2 3 4

Chorus:
External control are you gonna let them get you?
Do you wanna be a prisorner in the boundaries they set you?
You say you want to be yourself
By christ do you think they'll let you?
The're out to get you get you get you get you get you get you

Hello, hello, hello, this is the Lord God, can you hear?
Hellfire and damnation's what I've got for you down there
On earth I have ambassadors. archbishop. vicar. pope
We'll blind you with morality, you'd best abandon any hope,
We're telling you you'b better pray cos you were born in sin
Right from the start we'll build a cell and then we'll lock you in
We sit in holy judgement dondemning those that stray
We offer our forgiveness, but first we'll make you pay

Chorus

Hello. hell. hell, now here's a message from your queen
As figurehead of the status qui I set the social scene
I'm most concerned about my people, I want to give them peace
So I'm making sure they stay in line with my army and police
My prisons and my mental homes have ever open doors
For those amongst my subhects who dare to ask for more
Unrulyness and disrepect are things I can't allow
So I'll see the peasants grovel in they frefuse to bow.

Chorus

Introducing the Prime Sinister, she's a mother to us all
Like the dtch boy's finger in the dyke her arse is in the wall
Holding back the future waiting for the seas to part
If Moses did it with his faith, she;ll do it with an army
Who at times of threatened crisis are certain to be there
Gaurding national heritage no matter what or where
Palaces for kings and gueens, amnsions for the rich
Protection for the walthy, defence of pribige
They've learnt the ropes in Ireland, engaged in cibil war
Fighting for the ruling classes in their battle agaisnt the poor
Great Britain? Future? bollocks, you'd better look begind
Round every other corner stands P.C. 1984
Guardian of the future, he'll implement the law
Big brothers system's always there with his beady eyes on you
From God to local bobby, in home and street and school
They've got you name and number while you've just got their rule
We've got to look for methods to undermine those powers
It's time to chage the tables. the future must be ours.

BE exactly who you want to be, do what you want to do
I am he and she is she but you're the only you
No one else has got your eyes, can see the things you see
It's up to you to change you life and my life's up to me
The problems that you suffer from are problems that you make
The shite we have to climb through is the shite we choose to take
If you don't like the life you life, change it now it's yours
Nothing has effect if you don't recognise the cause
If the programmes's not the one you want, get up, turn off the set
It's only you that can decide what life you're gonna get
If you don't like religion you can be the antichrist
If your tired of politics you can be an anarchist
But no on ever changed the church by pulling down the steeple
And you'll never change the syustem by bombing number ten
Systems just aren't made of bricks they're most made of people
You may send then into hiding, but they'll be back again
If you don't like the rules they make, regust to play their game
If you don't want to be a numver, don't give them your name
If you don't wnat to be caught out, refuse to hear their question
Silence is a virtue, use it for your own protection
They'll try to make you play their game,refuse to show your face
Be exactly who you want to be, do what you want to do
I am he and she is she but you're the only you
First Gay Marriage, then legal weed and now a goddamn skatepark in PC.
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Postby to » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:23 pm

Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan.

I'm still on the first section about corn. For someone who thinks he knows a bit about food, I've been enlightened many times already.
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Postby escondido_vida » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:50 pm

Yanoamo: The Narrative of a White Girl Kidnapped by Amazonian Indians.

As told to Ettore Biocca

It is a biography of a woman that was taken by one of the Yanoamo tribe of Venezuela when she was 11 years old. She stayed with them for 20 years and it is her story of everything that went on with the tribes, their warfare, their way of living and how she married a couple of the men and had children with them. Eventually she gets away.

I am only 100 pgs into it but it is really exciting and very interesting, the tribes seem to always be at war with one another and there are some violent scenes paired with some moral delemas that other people of the tribes have with all of the fighting.

Their main form of communication with the spiritual world (Haikura= spirit) is by taking having one man shoot a bunch of hallucinogenic powder called epena into the other mans nose and then they trip out and talk to spirits.
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Postby brobra » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:35 am

Whose got snaps on the petro?
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Postby Fish » Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:46 pm

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

Dumbledore lives!
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Endgame

Postby sim » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:32 pm

Just go to the library and check out Spengler. Seek folk who originate ideas, rather than those who borrow them. cheaper.
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Postby Sparky » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:21 am

Fish wrote:Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

Dumbledore lives!


The kid read that one in 2 days, the wife is reading it next then I get a whack at it.
The kid said it was the best of the series.
Love many, trust few, do harm to none!
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Postby Stiffler » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:37 am

Shadow Divers

wreck divers discover u-boat in Antlantic off New Jersey.
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Postby escondido_vida » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:54 pm

Just read Harry Potter.....sorry to ruin the ending but Harry turns out to be a cross-dresser and changes his name to Lula. I know, I know....i was really shocked also, our little Harry all grown up with a pair of tits and heels....and Hermione....you guessed it, on welfare with 12 children by Ron. and Ron well, he dumped Hermione for a cheap bottle of whiskey and an even cheaper one night lay....

I CANT WAIT TO SEE THE MOVIE (i hear its gonna be rated R and Harry does a strip tease comparable to Demi Moore)!!!
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Postby HessXXpress » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:14 pm

"GOD" The False Hypothesis......best book ever. damn alot of people are wasting time in church
" and YOU can count on ME waiting for YOU in the parking lot!"
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