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Measures 66 &67

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Measures 66 &67

Postby intrepid » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:44 pm

So where does the truth lie?

As a school teacher I am in support of measures 66 & 67. Although my job is not in jeopardy, many services and support that I rely on as an educator could be cut along with other teachers who have not been teaching as long as I.

I'd like to forgo any type of credible information and, instead, skip right to a good ol' fashioned rebuttal, OSP style:

Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:At what point does the voting public in Oregon realize that the State is crying wolf?

Over and over again.

Every time the state needs money it's "the schools! the schools!"

At what point do people wake up to the idea that the schools do not get the money, and that more money is NOT the answer, no matter where that money comes from, rich or poor.

These measures directly impact my school district to the tune of $3.4 million dollars from the next budget. So yes, the schools will get the money. ...this time.

Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:And since when is $250K a year for a combined household considered "rich"?

Less than 3% of Oregonians fall into that category. Relatively speaking, I feel comfortable calling them rich.

Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:The pro side of this ballot campaign is disgusting.

If by disgusting you mean: focusing in on small parts of their argument to win favor. I agree. Both sides are to blame. But isn't that why there are two sides to the argument?

There are pros and cons for adopting or defeating these measures. Fortunately, you have the ability to evaluate information you are receiving for yourself and make an informed decision.

Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:My favorite is the black woman saying something about how corporations are paying less in taxes than the amount of they charge in "one late fee".

That is correct. A fair amount of the largest corporations in Oregon only pay $10 a year in income tax. That is the minimum corporate income tax. It was originally set at $75 but lowered to $10 to help companies in 1931. Since then, it has remained at $10. If passed, Measure 67 would raise the minimum tax from $10 to $150.

Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:Eat the rich!
Blame the corporations!
It's their fault that I am not wealthy!
It's their fault I do not have a job!
It's not my fault that I bought a house that I could not afford!
It's not my fault I have debts I can't pay!

I have no rebuttal for this. However, I do have a suggestion. Take the work you've started here and turn it into a song. Maybe get a really good bongo player or two to join in. Who knows, you could capture the feelings of the American working class and catapult yourself into iconic songwriter status. Then you'd be rich! :wink:
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Postby Hermgruf » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:01 pm

deleting all my posts.
Last edited by Hermgruf on Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Measures 66 &67

Postby Wilbur Kookmeyer » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:38 pm

Hermgruf said it best. I agree with his viewpoint completely.


intrepid wrote:So where does the truth lie?

As a school teacher I am in support of measures 66 & 67. Although my job is not in jeopardy, many services and support that I rely on as an educator could be cut along with other teachers who have not been teaching as long as I.


First off, thank you for dedicating yourself to the education of our children. It is a noble thing and is extremely important. And besides, free summers rock.

I'd like to forgo any type of credible information and, instead, skip right to a good ol' fashioned rebuttal, OSP style:


Remember the good old days when everyone would get pissed off and threaten each other? I miss those days....



These measures directly impact my school district to the tune of $3.4 million dollars from the next budget. So yes, the schools will get the money. ...this time.


I don't believe it. They have cried wolf too many times. Also, the schools need to do some house cleaning as well. They are top heavy and need to be rebalanced and thinned from the top, and steadied up from the ground up.

Repeating the same actions and expecting a different result is insane.

Intrepid wrote:
Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:And since when is $250K a year for a combined household considered "rich"?

Less than 3% of Oregonians fall into that category. Relatively speaking, I feel comfortable calling them rich.


I do not feel that comfortable in calling them rich. I know people that are close to me that are in that 3% and trust me, they are not rich. matter of fact they pay more in taxes than Erzat makes in a year.

How would you like to drive a nice car off the cliff every year? 'Cuz that is what the feds and Oregon take from them every year.

They pay their share.

You get up into the truly rich and maybe there is more shady tax dodging, but not at this level. It is soon to be the new middle class.

Intrpid wrote:
Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:The pro side of this ballot campaign is disgusting.

If by disgusting you mean: focusing in on small parts of their argument to win favor. I agree. Both sides are to blame. But isn't that why there are two sides to the argument?


Sure, but it is the ignorance that it panders to that upsets me. I truly do not want to believe that people are as gullible and ignorant as they keep proving to me that they are.


Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:My favorite is the black woman saying something about how corporations are paying less in taxes than the amount of they charge in "one late fee".

That is correct. A fair amount of the largest corporations in Oregon only pay $10 a year in income tax. That is the minimum corporate income tax. It was originally set at $75 but lowered to $10 to help companies in 1931. Since then, it has remained at $10. If passed, Measure 67 would raise the minimum tax from $10 to $150.


You missed my point. The point is, the woman's voice emphasises the perceived "injustice" of being charged a late fee. Like somehow we should punish the corporations for punishing us for breaking our agreements with them. Again, this goes to the low common denominator that is repeatedly proven in this world.

Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:Eat the rich!
Blame the corporations!
It's their fault that I am not wealthy!
It's their fault I do not have a job!
It's not my fault that I bought a house that I could not afford!
It's not my fault I have debts I can't pay!

I have no rebuttal for this. However, I do have a suggestion. Take the work you've started here and turn it into a song. Maybe get a really good bongo player or two to join in. Who knows, you could capture the feelings of the American working class and catapult yourself into iconic songwriter status. Then you'd be rich! :wink:[/quote]

Maybe....

Let's get a jam together and I will break it out....

Let's be clear about one thing, I support our schools. I support our teachers and our students.

I say "our" because I truly believe it is the responsibility of everyone within a society to contribute to it's future, whether they have children or not, or whether their children go to private school or not.

I am telling you now, none to very little of the revenues generated by these bogus measures will trickle down to the the actual school level.

Please do not be fooled........again, and again, and again, and again.....
Your electric car runs on coal. Think about it....
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Postby Ceedog » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:50 pm

Eugene used the same tactic when the city income tax came up for a vote. We should've learned by now that the biggest tool of government is fear.
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Postby riverjetty » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:36 pm

I was almost swayed until I heard they were going to lower taxes on unemployment insurance.
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Postby Wilbur Kookmeyer » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:03 pm

Ceedog wrote:Eugene used the same tactic when the city income tax came up for a vote. We should've learned by now that the biggest tool of government is fear.


Yeah...remember the Multnomah County tax? Yeah that was fun. And the schools benefited greatly from it right?

Yeah......right.

C'mon, we all know a minimum tax of $10 is rediculous. hell a minimum of $150 is stupid. But if you want to change this, then change it, but don't take private citizens and small companies with it, and don't hide it in the "plite of the schools" argument.
Your electric car runs on coal. Think about it....
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Postby Doc » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:39 pm

It's a liberal measure right?
I'll vote yes.

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Postby holddown » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:59 pm

I already pay enough tax.
I voted No.

HD
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Postby pra_ggresion » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:45 am

You make that much?

It's is simple as this

I benefit from government services
Government is financed by taxes
I don't benefit from paying taxes.
If the government is financed while I don't have to pay taxes then I only stand to benefit.

I have to pay more taxes if I make 250k or more. I have to pay more taxes if I'm a corporation or work for a corporation that will delegate their tax burden to the employees.

I am none, therefore I only stand to benefit.

People that generally have the means i.e. people that make over 250k and corporations make decisions based on the same sort of criteria and will always vote to benefit themselves not me.

It 's me against them, so stuff 'em.
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Re: Measures 66 &67

Postby Spent » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:03 am

Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote: I say "our" because I truly believe it is the responsibility of everyone within a society to contribute to it's future, whether they have children or not, or whether their children go to private school or not.



You, damn socialist!
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Postby holddown » Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:30 pm

pra_ggresion wrote:You make that much?
I'm a small business and I work for corporations.
I pay:

Medicare
SS
State tax
Property tax
Fed tax
Fed employer tax
State employer tax
Fed unemployment tax
State unemployment tax
Employer SS
Employer medicare
Workman's comp
Tax on tax
etc etc

I pay enough tax. I volted no. I didn't even need to read the measures.

And if I did make more than 250k, why is that a crime?
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Postby bluesilver » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:32 pm

holddown wrote:
And if I did make more than 250k, why is that a crime?


It's not a crime, but it would definitely make you the target of those lacking the skills to get where you are. Socialists hate that your talent and knowledge pays more than their lack of.
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Postby Gazsurf » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:40 pm

holddown wrote:I volted no.


This is shocking....
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Postby holddown » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:47 pm

Gazsurf wrote:This is shocking....

Ha! That's another good typo. I guess I need to get the spell check on Google toolbar reinstalled.
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Postby pra_ggresion » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:49 pm

And if I did make more than 250k, why is that a crime?


It's not but it puts us on different side of the ol' proverbial railroad tracks. Think we're going to have to B-Battle to settle this one.

Voted YES biatches.
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