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Measures 66 &67

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Postby riverjetty » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:23 pm

P.S. Wilbur, it's not Oregon. It was running 60 against until it hit Multanomah county.

From their website: Multnomah County is Oregon's smallest and most populous county with over 710,000 residents.

Trumps everyone else in the game. They also produce the most smog in the state, possibly the only smog in the state.
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Postby Wilbur Kookmeyer » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:14 pm

riverjetty wrote:P.S. Wilbur, it's not Oregon. It was running 60 against until it hit Multanomah county.

From their website: Multnomah County is Oregon's smallest and most populous county with over 710,000 residents.

Trumps everyone else in the game. They also produce the most smog in the state, possibly the only smog in the state.


No doubt. just wait until I move to the other side of the hill....then i will really have somehting to bitch about.
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Postby bluesilver » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:11 am

Though not an Oregon resi., I completely agree that the schools are always looked at first as a meant of formal blackmail. Going after our kids is as close to going after our throats as they can get with that knife.
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Postby pra_ggresion » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:48 am

Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:
pra_ggresion wrote:BOOYAH! How you like them apples. 66&67 pass by a landslide.

I would like to thank all out there that will now be helping me secure the option of applying to a grad school without having to pay back a dime.

If only Wilbur made enough dough that I could claim he was being forced by proxy of the government to give me money. Let's get that in there next people. Measure 68 [Tax Wilburs]. Brought to you by ME [tm]


What's the point in going to grad school if half of the money you make from the greater earning potential will be stolen from you by those "less fortunate" than you?

And you have no idea what I make.


I see a chord has been struck. Higher earning potential; yeah that's the metric one measures success by.

After this educational stint I fully intend to not work in a office. But if fate forces me to then I'll scam that to just like I'm skatin' by through the institution of education. All it takes is a minimal amount of paperwork savvy.
So don't cry to me about the big bad tax man taking your hard earned dough. Someday Oregon's citizens should really wake up to the facts and quit blaming "the poor" for their own crappy condition.

And you have no idea what I make

I know you don't make it to the coast as much as me. And that; is at least one metric a person measures success in life.
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Postby bluesilver » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:59 pm

Yeah, Wilb does spend a lot of time hating on poor folk. We get it - you hate taxes and you hate the idea of the government using some of 'your' money to help people who 'need' it. We understand that you have a Mr. Scrooge complex. You should change your name to that. But if you hate the way the governemt is trying to help or dig us out, move to some remote place in Alaska where you don't earn a paycheck. Hunt for your food, built your cabin and forget all about it.
Until then, no matter what, you will pay taxes to support other people. Especially right now, when 10% are out of work.

Now just let me know which brands buy your seafood products so I can stop buying them, if I ever did. And if you ever lose your job and benefits - don't even dare step into a government supported clinic when your kid needs a doctor.
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Postby SlimVest » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:57 pm

Next up...the KICKER!!!

I give money to the homeless. Hell, I've shared a Tecate 40oz with one!
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Postby Ceedog » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:33 pm

Has there ever been a repealed tax, just wondering. I wonder if Eugene's still threatening the municipal income tax, they used the same tactics.
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Postby erzats » Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:51 am

most tax levies expire after a certain amount of time. So that's like having a tax repealed. 66 and 67 expire after several years.

GW repealed/cut a LOT of federal taxes. One of the major reasons for the effed up deficit that Obama inherited and was forced to balloon to keep the global economy afloat. The gigantic beast that is the US tax code is what it is because of many many bills that have come and gone over the years and left their residue. Any other ballooning of the fed deficit, well, I'm sure some of you have opinions. But don't forget that the budget was balanced under Clinton and the debt clock was running backwards. When a repub got in and started slashing taxes the deficit climbed into the hundreds of billions, we got nothing for that as a country except richer rich people. GW and other repubs could be truer to their word if they actually shrunk government when they cut taxes. Instead they generally expand government and cut taxes which is disastrous. Obama came in inheriting both a natural downturn in the economy and a major financial crisis and will forever be seen as the president who blew up the deficit even though it's only a fraction his doing.
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Postby Wilbur Kookmeyer » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:38 pm

erzats wrote:most tax levies expire after a certain amount of time. So that's like having a tax repealed. 66 and 67 expire after several years.

GW repealed/cut a LOT of federal taxes. One of the major reasons for the effed up deficit that Obama inherited and was forced to balloon to keep the global economy afloat. The gigantic beast that is the US tax code is what it is because of many many bills that have come and gone over the years and left their residue. Any other ballooning of the fed deficit, well, I'm sure some of you have opinions. But don't forget that the budget was balanced under Clinton and the debt clock was running backwards. When a repub got in and started slashing taxes the deficit climbed into the hundreds of billions, we got nothing for that as a country except richer rich people. GW and other repubs could be truer to their word if they actually shrunk government when they cut taxes. Instead they generally expand government and cut taxes which is disastrous. Obama came in inheriting both a natural downturn in the economy and a major financial crisis and will forever be seen as the president who blew up the deficit even though it's only a fraction his doing.


I think Clinton was agreat president.
Probably the best of my adult life.
The way he was persecuted for having a dick was recockulous.

I understand Obama took on a mess.
Most presidents do.

What I hate is excusing him for his failures because of the mess he assumed.

It is sort of like the war cry of the liberals "it's not my fault!" "I am a victim of my environment!".

He knew better than any of us what he was accepting.
His failure to rise to those challenges, to affect change upon them is what I will judge him on.

Erzat...what do you think about a flat tax? Do away with this archaic and biased system and let everyone pay the same rate, no matter what they make. What do you think about that?
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Postby erzats » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:18 pm

Are you pro sales tax?
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Postby erzats » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:37 pm

I agree that it's not "fair" to have progessive tax systems, but I don't like the flat tax because:

1) it would amount to a huge tax cut for the rich. This is a major reason why it comes up again and again.

2) It shifts the tax burden onto groups that probably can't afford that rate. Assume there's no standard deduction or other tax credits, exemptions blah blah blah. say the flax tax rate is %15. If you don't make a lot of money, say 15,000 gross per year, those 15% cut into a margin already damn thin. If you make 150000, then you pay out 22,500 but you are still working with a shitload of income per year. Whether someone who makes 150000 uses 22500 in services directly is probably questionable but see below.

3) One reason the rich should pay higher taxes is because, for the most part, the rich need the poor to do labor, which is much of the basis for our economy. If the rich fail to support the poor by paying them appropriate wages, and if they then go begging for a flat tax from the govt, then the poor will eventually get sick and won't be able to work because their workers cannot afford to pay their tax, or there isn't enough money in the coffers for govt services that that income bracket needs to do the jobs they hold. They will riot because living conditions are shit, or they will leave for another country. Or, less drastically, they just won't have any money left over to buy stuff which keeps this whole machine clunking down the road as it is. Either way the owners of capital are effed. A progressive tax supports the brand of capitalism that we have.
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Postby pra_ggresion » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:49 am

A progressive tax supports the brand of capitalism that we have.
I haven't thought of it like that before. Interesting perspective
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Postby bluesilver » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:04 am

Hate them all you want, but some Unions have their benefits and those benefits can spill over into the non-union sector.
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Postby Ceedog » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:54 pm

Abolish the Federal Reserve and the personal income tax is needless, most of it goes towards paying interest on our phony debt anyways. Flat tax, fair tax, national sales tax, higher tax on the rich, etc............. We can't tax our way out, we need to stop printing phony money.
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Postby erzats » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:01 pm

Our "phony" debt is to China and Japan and is very real. We only get by on the principle of mutual assured destruction, if they call in the loans we fold and take them down with us. Can't get out of it with taxes alone, but fiscal responsibility is key and that includes higher taxes and lower spending. Get rid of a couple of wars and things would look better.
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