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Postby Doc » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:42 pm

As a parent...
There is no solution to society...
Shield and protect all you want...
It ain't gonna work...
The best defense is a good offense...
Inform them and empower them...
To call BS when they encounter BS...
I also strongly encourage martial arts...
So they can kick @ss and break bones...
In case the BS crosses into a threat...
I don't feel bs' or wc' viewpoints are anything more than...
Just ignorant or ignoring of reality.

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Postby Ceedog » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:46 pm

WC wrote:i'm aware that children are influenced, if you dont like the influence, shield them from it, teach them better, thats your responsibility as a parent, or just dont have kids, but please, just dont complain and blame their problems on everyone and everything else. like some thread on osp.


Hey WC, how dare you bring up personal responsibility.

If you agree that society, through advertising and pop culture, is corrupting our kids, then sounds like we got our work cut out for us. Just my opinion.
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Postby WC » Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:02 pm

time for a rant...excuse any sarcastic undertones....theres still hot women to follow

since nobody wants to make an argument against my beliefs, instead of just saying something lame like "you so stupid/ignorant" or implying childish things things like "i understand the deeper meaning in movies better than you"....

just have to argue with myself, feel free to chime in:

so, someone says: no WC, i believe you're wrong, we have a responsibility as a human race to all take care of each other and look out for each other and all work together to make this planet a happy place to live for all of us and if someone doesn't like something we are doing or feels it is a bad influence, they have the right to tell us to stop it and we should stop because we are good hearted human beings.

to which my response is: well, sure, that sounds all fine and dandy but guess what?
its a belief, not a fact. and where one persons responsibility to anothers starts and ends is defined differently for all people and we get to define that for ourselves. not everyone believes what you believe and it'd be best to find a way to deal with that. go on believing we need others to do something/be something different/change their actions in order for us to find peace, happiness, or whatever! and my belief is that we'll struggle to find that thing.

and then someone says: thats a bunch of bull, we need each other for all sorts of things or would you just prefer to sit and rot alone forever?

so the response goes: sure, we do NEED eachother for some things (like love, companionship, sex, reproduction), but lets be realistic. nobody needs me to stop believing that certain women are hot so that their daughter can feel good about herself, thats ridiculous and a very slippery slope when applied to other things. It sounds like there is no personal responsibility involved. it just seems like blaming not only your problems, but the cause of your childrens (which are really your problems) on others.

then someone else says: so you have no responsibility to other people? and no responsibility to be a decent person to children? you sound like such a monster, you know?

response: (roar) my responsibility to some random child ends where i am not going to directly or intentionally physically or mentally harm that child. however, i am not indirectly responsible for their mental health if not interacting with them on a regular basis, (and this is the crux of the point i am disputing). sorry, thats where the line is drawn, i only accidentally yell, spit or swear in front of a random children but willingness to change my actions for that child does have an endpoint. my mental health is important too, and sometimes it involves looking at beautiful women at home, or hell, up on a billboard for that matter.

heres a crappy metaphor...if you are taking your children to a park that allows people to setup land mines in it, wouldn't it be a good idea to either find another park without landmines or teach your child to be an expert at avoiding land mines and then maybe talk to the city about banning landmines from the park.
rather than just crying out: "landmines are bad for kids!" duh. lots of stuff is.

wouldnt it be nice to hear people saying things like:
"yea our daughter got obsessive about her body image but we have been effective by talking to her, making sure she stays healthy and fit, reaffirming how great she looks, disallowing her to watch too much tv, and stopping subscriptions to beauty magazines."

instead of:
"if those pigs would stop putting pictures of hot women all over the place, our daughter would be able to feel good about herself."

gotta agree with doc and respect to *most* of what he says, shielding is probably not better than teaching a good offense to your children, but without kids of my own, what do i know, right?

but, to doc, "ignorant of reality?", really?
i'd say that simply writing my viewpoint/beliefs off (before you even ask me to articulate them) as ignorant because its not a shared belief, instead of actually debating it, is the real ignorance. but if its easier to paint all this as ignorance, go right ahead. we get to believe whatever we want....k, all done, someone tell me i'm all wrong, please. but be articulate.
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Postby Doc » Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:23 pm

I never claimed to not be ignorant

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Postby Hermgruf » Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:36 pm

deleting all my posts.
Last edited by Hermgruf on Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby WC » Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:48 pm

Image
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Postby WC » Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:50 pm

i searched long and hard and couldn't find any overweight surfer girl images to balance this out

go figure.
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Postby Gazsurf » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:46 pm

WC wrote:i searched long and hard and couldn't find any overweight surfer girl images to balance this out

go figure.


Oh, don't dare me!
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Postby erzats » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:50 pm

Hermgruf wrote:Some people might prefer the "look" of a Ferrari
but prefer to feel the smooth ride of a Buick.

If there was a thread for car images,
I'd prefer looking at the "sportier" models,
even if they are impractical.

But that's just objectification of vehicles.
There's more to a car than its looks.


It's not the first time that a discussion about women and the objectification of women has evolved into comparisons to cars. Have a close look at what you are saying. Just admit that there is really no strong argument in favor of this thread, especially when it incorporates derogatory comments about powerful, high-achieving women who don't look like barbie. It's ethically indefensible and all of the arguments in favour of this thread are shaped to suit the base desires of the authors of those arguments. Lawyerly, but ethically unsound. As much as I like looking at these pictures this thread it should be locked and/or deleted because it is damaging.
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Postby WC » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:05 pm

CENSORSHIP!!!!!!

how about one of those "parental guidance" stickers instead?

ethics vary
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ok, is this what you guys wanna see:
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Postby WC » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:48 pm

Image
Image
Image
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Image
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Image
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Postby WC » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:53 pm

Monica Belluci (again?)
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Postby Hermgruf » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:54 pm

deleting all my posts.
Last edited by Hermgruf on Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby WC » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:10 pm

right on hermgruf, i agree with you. this thread is great, it has it all.

in japan, it is considered by many to be shameful to be fat if you are not a sumo wrestler

it used to be way more shameful here too, once, not so long ago

now, no need to feel shame over being fat if being fat is painted as being the fault of someone else

its like transferring your shame to someone else

and there is no shame in something that isn't your own fault, is there?

and thats not to say there aren't shameless american fat women who DONT blame their fatness on society, they also exist.

and this is merely a contribution of observation to add to the debate, not opinion.
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Postby Wilbur Kookmeyer » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:23 pm

WC wrote:now, no need to feel shame over being **** as being **** is the fault of someone else

transfer your shame to someone else

there is no shame in something that isn't your own fault.

there aren't any shameless american ****** who DONT blame their ***** on society.



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