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Unions

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Unions?

Fo shizzo my nizzo!
7
64%
Oh hell no!
4
36%
 
Total votes : 11

Postby grizldoldfk » Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:13 am

can we talk about onions now?
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Postby riverjetty » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:10 am

If they ever organize Walmart I'll believe they actually care about the workers in america, and not their own pocketbooks. I believe their time is past, and the next generation will need to violently overthrow the government to realize any vestige of the american dream.

Just an opinion, formed by decades of drug abuse and onshore winds.
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Postby bluesilver » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:12 am

Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:
speelyei wrote:Personally, I got the best benefits, compensation, retirement package, and hourly wage when I was a member of IBEW Local 125. Also, obtaining my Journeymans Card after my apprenticeship gave me a legitimacy, marketability, and pride I would not have otherwise obtained as a Blue Collar worker.


Forgive me if I am wrong about this, but the Journeyman card only matters in union shops...right?


NO. Non Union still need to carry the same cards as the Union guys to do the work. Law.
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Postby bluesilver » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:45 am

Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:Care about the memebrs? How about a 70k a year pension for a buddy who retired last year plus other benefits!

That's good. And it is something that should be built inot the companies by their own hands. However, the falacy here is that the union did not pay for it....the company did.

How about health coverage that costs 10 bucks a month for your WHOLE FAMILY no matter how many kids you have! Plus damn near everything medical/dental/vision etc paid in full.

Who do you think pays for that? Do you think the insurance company says "oh...yer a union...okay....you only hav to pay $10 amonth for the benefit"?

.


The things you talk about here are paid by the company And employees via dues. It is not an "insurace company" that gives the health coverage, it is a Trust.. big difference.
And struggling company paying for my trust funds? Hardly. This union as well as most out here on the West coast as compared to the East coast are doing a lot of business and hold the highest mmarket share.
Union electricians in Washington alone have around an 80% hold on all work.
My dads shop has been around for a long time and he told me recently that 2008 was their biggest year yet.

You also mentioned that mulimillion dollar jobs are not around today?? Are you kidding me? I bid a job 2 weeks ago that was 1.6 million just for the lighting fixtures portion alone.

Also, the market for Unions further East is tiny and bleak. Always has been. If you asked a guy in Georgia if he was in a Union he'd ask you wtf a Union was. I know this because I worked with guys who moved over here to escape that craphole.

I do agree the grocery clerks probably don't need a Union, but I'm willing to bet it was started because most large chains were similar to walmart in the way they treat employees.
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Postby Gazsurf » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:18 pm

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence.
You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."











Abraham Lincoln


So I think old Abe would have encouraged unions.
"I disagree with these experts. Someone has got to stand up to experts."

Texas Board of Education member McLeroy rejecting science over creationism.
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Postby riverjetty » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:41 pm

bluesilver wrote:
I do agree the grocery clerks probably don't need a Union, but I'm willing to bet it was started because most large chains were similar to walmart in the way they treat employees.


Why would you say that? Only skilled blue collar workers (read the already unionized cronies, and recipients of the nepotism rife in the guild) are worthy of union protection? Let's make three working classes, the haves, the haves union, and the scum.

I think the Wobbly's may have their day after all.
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Postby Doc » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:48 pm

If this thread has given us anything...it was this:

Just an opinion, formed by decades of drug abuse and onshore winds.
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Postby Doc » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:00 pm

I think unions have their place and obviously have abused their purpose on occassion.
The potential to unionize a place like a retail store or a bar is worrisome to me because I see the extremely narrow profit margin in my business as a manager and wonder what the impetus would be to stay in business if it was unionized.
Obviously, there are good years & bad years...good months & bad months...but all in all, the net is often very low.
When I see the net profit line at or near 0...I always like to think that it was nice we paid all our wages, repairs, vacation, insurance and all the rest of the costs to do business...and didn't lose money.
But the goal in business is to make money...not break even or lose it.
I don't think WK's workplace is a good union candidate by any means (I know where he works...he's on of my company's suppliers) anymore than mine...but I do think that unions can be effective in certain industries & workplaces.
We'll see what happens.

doc

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Postby Gazsurf » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:12 pm

doc wrote:doc

doc


Are you developing a stutter doc doc?
"I disagree with these experts. Someone has got to stand up to experts."

Texas Board of Education member McLeroy rejecting science over creationism.
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Postby pra_ggresion » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:03 pm

Unions do not give a crap about imbalances...they want the power, the jobs, and wages...for one reason only...to make money for the union.


Agreed but the existence of opposing forces benefits the system that contains the subsystem dubbed 'the company' and the intersection of 'the company' with the system dubbed 'workers'. Sure, the system is less efficient but that's the point. Efficiency enables an increase in carrying capacity for currency. That capacity must be filled by energies associated with employees rights. Naturally, inflated senses of entitlement are produced by that relationship. Better then preunion conditions where no one would dream of defering profit to well being of their employees by training managers in CPR.
Companies exist to orient unidirectionally towards a state of expansion always . An opposing system has to exist for the sake of balance. Self regulation is impossible for a singly oriented subsystem.

Unions are anti-free trade.

And that is the point.


Free Trade sucks. It isomorphs resources into profit at the expense of other systems. A Free Trade system is also unidirectionally oriented towards increase in profits. As a whole it is energetically unfavorable for a free trade system to lower a carrying capacity for currency. Thus the system will always seek to contain other systems. Completely finite in the context of a closed system that contains free trade, called Earth.

So when one says Unions are 'anti-free trade' I say 'God Bless them.'

And Unions shouldn't nor are they the only force in the system. One must include culture, government, exterior economics et al. So as was said unions aren't the end all be all for what works best for balance. Some sectors should increase, others should just cease.
Last edited by pra_ggresion on Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gazsurf » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:07 pm

Nicely put!
"I disagree with these experts. Someone has got to stand up to experts."

Texas Board of Education member McLeroy rejecting science over creationism.
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Postby pra_ggresion » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:13 pm

Thank you.
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Postby grizldoldfk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:31 am

so...onions...

i personally like onions.
but they may not be for everyone...
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Postby speelyei » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:56 am

one more post from you jerks, and everybody walks. You can try and find some scabs or boogie boarders to come in here and post, but we won't let 'em in.
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Postby Gazsurf » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:26 am

grizldoldfk wrote:so...onions...

i personally like onions.
but they may not be for everyone...


Vidalia onions are sweet scabs. I'll stand with red onions any day, they're like brothers to me.
"I disagree with these experts. Someone has got to stand up to experts."

Texas Board of Education member McLeroy rejecting science over creationism.
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