Change font size   Print view

Pardon?

Yes, this is a surfpage, but many of us like to discuss non-surf related issues amongst fellow surfers. Here's the place to do it. Registration is required.

Moderators: wanty, Gazsurf

think he'll get a pardon?

yes
5
45%
no
6
55%
 
Total votes : 11

Postby Ceedog » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:06 pm

tail first drop wrote:"The problem is that people associate christianity with tyrants and corruptable figures who have only used it to control or manipulate populations."

And what else is religion good for?



Obviously nothing for you. I can agree that is an effective tool for controlling masses, but that is where the abuse and departure from actual observance come in. Unfortunately, the problems people associate with religion are problems of man not of a faith. Just because some A-hole snakes me a my favorite spot doesn't mean that I will equate that rude individual with surfing as a whole.

As far as Scooty not getting a pardon, it's either that or he'll end up jumping off of the roof of the state department parking garage.
Carbon credits, brought to you by Enron. PM for quotes.
User avatar
Ceedog
Jetsam
 
Posts: 1902
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:01 pm
Location: The land of right points

Postby gills » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:19 pm

See, this is what I have a problem with exactly--

"jesus died to save us from our sins"

That's just plain not true historically. The 'idea' that jesus died for our sins didn't come around until Paul, nearly 150 years later, so not only do you have to believe in the concept that we're all guilty because of the original sin in the garden of eden, but you also have to believe that the correlation that's made between original sin and jesus, was a divine concept transmitted to Paul from god 150 some odd years later that is retroactive.

Jesus died because he was a punk (I don't mean this as an insult, punk is a compliment where I'm from-- and like king missile said, "jesus is way cool".) And rome didn't like punk. They didn't like authority questioned etc...jesus died just like any other troublemakers did.

Cruxification in ancient rome = speeding ticket today. Rome cruxified thousands and thousands of dudes and despite what people will tell you, they didn't use 'rope' on all the other guys, they nailed them all for the most part-- helped the dying processs-- weakened the body faster so that they'd hang and suffocate.

I guess my problem is, Ceedog, is that I just plain don't need to answer the question 'why am I here'. It doesn't bother me that I'm a speck in time in a rain drop on Betty's other universe fifty times larger doppelganger's nipple. And I sure as crap don't want to exist eternally. Think earth is crowded? Try the DMV in heaven.

Which is not to say I don't believe in morality-- morality is a useful tool for society---

I believe in beauty-- I believe in aesthetics--- I believe that somewhere innate in our beings is the ability to recognize beauty, just as we recognize a mother's nipple. And beauty is enough. Generally, I'm of the mind that human created things are usually uglier than their natural counterparts-- Or that human made beauty is usually a response to human made ugliness-- The reason religion is so screwed up is because its made by humans, not 'god'.

Part of the reason christians get a bad name is because all the one that get publicity are psychotic, thanks to the media. But thats the same as everything else.
gills
 

Postby Wilbur Kookmeyer » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:32 pm

Sorry I have been absent from this conversation, or not.

Anyway, Gaz....truly....the "tone" my post was not one of animosity. Please do no take it that way.

TFD (though I should likely not even mention you) your question as to what else religion is good for other than getting you out of death...welll...that is something you would have to answer for yourself. Just as I cannot tell you what I think you should believe, I cannot tell you what value a form of spirituality can hold for you.

however, the idea that religion helps deal with the fear of death is interesting. I would imagine you are talking along the ideas of the "God Brain". I have pondered this as well. the unanswered is so easily answered by the existance of a God or Gods. However, i will tell you this, I do not fear death. That is not to say I would accept death any more gracefully than you, but I do not fear it.

One could argue to great extents as to whether your fear of death is related to a lack of spiritual beief, or that my spiritual belief contributes to my lack of fear from death. Chicken...egg...you know?

Landlord...this is kind of disheartening..

The Landlord wrote:There was a great article on park ranger/surfer Gary Strachan in TSJ last year. I like his take on religion...

"How ironic and forlorn that the vast majority of populations, especially in an 'educated' country such as America, haven't gone beyond believing in magical and unproven fairy tales like heaven and hell."


The reason I see this quote as disheartening is that to deny the existance of a spiritual side to our being is so blind to me. Is it a "fairy tale heaven and hell" set up? I don't know. Nobody does. but that is the basis of the word "faith". to believe in that which is not yet proven.

All I can tell you, is that in my experience, there is somehting beyond this physical state. Call it energy, spirit, soul, or campy-esque doggy heaven...whatever you choose to call it...my experiences have proven to me...all of me...that there is somehting beyond this physical state. Something that none of us understand.

gills....as usual...you and I really see the same things..though we express it in different ways.

this is a well expressed piece...

"jesus died to save us from our sins"


See...this is based on the Bible. The Bible to me is like a guide. Like a Chilton Manual for the soul.

The idea that Jesus died for our sins, and that somehow our sins, past, present, and future, are forgiven by accepting him as our saviour is just not exactly what I believe.

I believe that for our sins to be forgiven, that I have to walk in his sandals a bit.....

Jesus died because he was a punk (I don't mean this as an insult, punk is a compliment where I'm from-- and like king missile said, "jesus is way cool".) And rome didn't like punk. They didn't like authority questioned etc...jesus died just like any other troublemakers did.


And that is what I mean. Jesus, in al accounts that were ever recorded, was a groovy dude. He was down with his people. Poor and Rich. Wrong and right. He was down with it. He gave the powers to be the finger and said watch what we are truly capable of.

and they whacked him out.

But even on the cross he did not give in. He died as he lived.

To me that makes him a Martyr. And a damn good one at that.

The idea that he is the son of God is where the faith comes in. I believe he was one form of an embodiment of God. Not unlike Budha...and others.

JC was down with his homies.

I guess my problem is, Ceedog, is that I just plain don't need to answer the question 'why am I here'. It doesn't bother me that I'm a speck in time in a rain drop on Betty's other universe fifty times larger doppelganger's nipple. And I sure as crap don't want to exist eternally. Think earth is crowded? Try the DMV in heaven.


I don't ever question why I am here. I have to look no further than to the budding blonde in my house to know my purpose. And if I need more, all I have to do is close my eyes and remember the beauty that I have known in my life. And maybe share it with those that need a bit of beauty in their lives.

sorry about your not wanting to exist eternally, that's gonna suck for you. I truly believe that we all exist eternally...in some form.

Which is not to say I don't believe in morality-- morality is a useful tool for society---


Eh...Morality....how does anyone say what is "moral" or even more so than another?

I believe in beauty-- I believe in aesthetics--- I believe that somewhere innate in our beings is the ability to recognize beauty, just as we recognize a mother's nipple. And beauty is enough. Generally, I'm of the mind that human created things are usually uglier than their natural counterparts-- Or that human made beauty is usually a response to human made ugliness--


I could not agree more.

The reason religion is so screwed up is because its made by humans, not 'god'.


i have to disagree with you here though. religion is a pathway to God. It is man that screws up the path. i agree it is the human elemnt that messes it al up..but religion is a product of God.

Part of the reason christians get a bad name is because all the one that get publicity are psychotic, thanks to the media. But thats the same as everything else.


It's unfortuante. But you know what? they don't do themselves any favors. Fanaticism in any form is a dangerous thing.

I don't know if I ever shared my story about my friend Phougn. Vietnamese dude I have known for many years. about the best filleter you would ever want to cut a fish for you.
He is a devout Budhist. He is dedicated to his temple and his family. He is likely the most wonderful man I have ever known.
He called me one saturday and asked me to stop by his house. It was the first and only time I have ever been there. His beautiful wife had prepared some wonderful salad rolls and he wanted to share them with me.
His wife was in the kithcen getting a bunch of them wrapped up for me to take. Phougn and I sat in his living room. He broke out a video tape of his mothers funeral in Vietnam. I t was a beautiful ceremony. colorful. Almost festive.
We talked for a bit and I noticed a paitning on his wall. In the painting there were numerous religious figures. Budha. that Gannesha from the hindu faith, Jesus, and others. Above them all was an eye. Just an eye. I asked hime what this all was. He said to me that the eye is the eye of God. That God sees us all as one. that each of these paths are the paths that people choose, but that they all lead to the same place and are all seen the same under the eye of God. He said that one day, we will all see this. We will al see what God already sees. And that is when we will all know peace.

So I guess you could say I am a Christian wing of Phougnism.

ps: those salad rolls were the best I ever had.
Your electric car runs on coal. Think about it....
User avatar
Wilbur Kookmeyer
full of bull kelp.
 
Posts: 9393
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:04 am

Postby Doc » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:54 pm

Ceedog wrote:

As far as Scooty not getting a pardon, it's either that or he'll end up jumping off of the roof of the state department parking garage.


Jump? Or get pushed?

Who knows?

He'll probably get rich either way...

doc
"If you don't surf...don't start".
User avatar
Doc
noodle arms/noodle brain
 
Posts: 4530
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 4:08 pm
Location: Oregon

Postby The Blonde » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:21 pm

Wait a minute....did gills just call me an alien?
I approve this message
The Blonde
Am I addicted to this?
 
Posts: 502
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:12 pm
Location: where ever I am, Im gay.

Postby tail first drop » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:15 am

Convicted Felon* Scooter Libby is already quite rich, net worth of 5.5 million...





*Proper titles are important....
Image
tail first drop
 

Postby Gazsurf » Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:25 am

Now that's funny..............sad, but funny.
"I disagree with these experts. Someone has got to stand up to experts."

Texas Board of Education member McLeroy rejecting science over creationism.
User avatar
Gazsurf
the kook whisperer
 
Posts: 5984
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:22 pm
Location: Your head

Postby brdsurf » Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:48 am

Wilbur Kookmeyer wrote:He said to me that the eye is the eye of God. That God sees us all as one. that each of these paths are the paths that people choose, but that they all lead to the same place and are all seen the same under the eye of God. He said that one day, we will all see this. We will al see what God already sees. And that is when we will all know peace.
.


It all falls into the hand of String Theory eventually. The random stuff that explains the whys and hows while at the same time is quite interesting in the philosophical area as well. Where does religion become philosophy or become "provable"?

Jesus dying for my sins? Shouldnt I be the one doing that? Maybe he died for the sins of my forefathers nearly 2000 years ago. But this idea is scary to me. For someone to be held accountable for what I do today. But at the same time that thought is justified by rote verse and repeated brainwashing.
What next, white Christians keep getting targeted by extremists because of the sins GW brought out of our time?
"I have to overcome that safety mechanism that wants to rise up in me and to keep me from doing something that could kill me."
"Everything’s okay until it isn’t."
User avatar
brdsurf
straight.......like a boomerang
 
Posts: 1318
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:52 pm
Location: Searching for the secrets of the Gspot Massage

Postby The Landlord » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:27 pm

WK wrote
"The reason I see this quote as disheartening is that to deny the existance of a spiritual side to our being is so blind to me. Is it a "fairy tale heaven and hell" set up? I don't know. Nobody does. but that is the basis of the word "faith". to believe in that which is not yet proven."

You nailed it Wilbur. "I don't know"- the only honest answer... maybe Huxley was onto something?
User avatar
The Landlord
Hawaii big surf veterinarian
 
Posts: 395
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:09 pm

Previous

Return to Things That Don't Matter (What the OSP is really about)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests