erzats wrote:This should get the neo-cons fired up. What do y'all think of the austerity plans in Europe? Are they good, strict fiscal policy in a time that needs it, or is it a way for the wealthy to tip the scales more in their favour toward a less social, more free market system like the US has? Are the French just acting le-tired by not being retired at 60? Or should people protect the erosion of a system that arguably leads to an excellent lifestyle for the broadest economic swath of people?
Who else has thought about this stuff? What do you think?
Hmmm, hard question to answer really. I think most Americans perspective of whats happening in Europe is a bit off or skewed by media. As far as the rioting, that is nothing new and has less to do with the austerity plans than individual groups of people trying to protect their own lifestyles or sectors. One of the reasons why it is hard to claim that it is just a way for the wealthy to tip scales is that for many of the EU countries there is a huge difference between the economical-social status groups compared to the USA. Yeah, there are some stinky filthy rich but the gap between wealthy and middle class is small. But then again you have to compared it at a more level than is often the common Americans thinking. Compare middle class in France vs Greece and it will not be close. Compare again Italy vs Denmark. Middle class isnt the same. In the USA it is less different. There are poor masses nestled right up next to the middle class and the rich. LA, NY and so forth are great examples of that. Hell even PDX.
The main issue that is going to be a strain to the individual EU states is that of retirement pensions. The average states population is falling. Be it due to emigration or whatever, there is less people to pay for the social benefits of those not working. It has less to do with the raising of the retirement age as a whole, at least EU wide, than it does with protecting what the taxes actually pay for. I mean if you had basically free health care, free education, guaranteed paid vacation every year during the best times of the year AND the ability to vote wether or not changes come, who represents you and other matters (just like in the USA) wouldnt you stand up and try to let your voice be heard?
Another issue that is also at play in this that Americans dont hear so much about (maybe it is a guilty conscience or something considering many Americans current view of immigrants) is that of refugees legal and otherwise. Many Americans think Hispanics that are illegally in the USA and do nothing but drain the economy and run down the system it seems. If you think that Hispanics and such are worthless, look up the Roma problem in the EU states, or Somalis, or Persians, or well, any number of African (mostly northern) peoples. Once they have one member get in then they try to take the laws to the extreme and invite everyone they know in. If they are lucky enough to get in, usually through Greece via Turkey (applying for EU member status) or to a lesser extent through Spain via Morocco, Tunisia or Libya, they find groups of their own to protect themselves and often sick or whatever receive treatment for basically no cost. Any of you ever become sick in Europe? Its cheap for the most part, even if you pay more than someone from Europe. If these people make it far enough north though away from the frontier states, they get deported on the tax payers bill. The tax payers of the individual state. Not from a EU wide general fund or protection unit.
With that it is important when discussing how different things are in the USA vs EU, the EU doesnt even have a formal agreed Constitution. In that sense they see how apart America has become with how the different regional interests are unique and offer their own set of challenges and problems/solutions. What is important to someone in Oregon economically, socially, mentally and whatever is not the same as those in Florida, Maine or Kansas. Same with Europe. Think those in the UK worry about subsidies to Italian farmers? Or that Spanish people want to pay for Estonian harbor upgrades to be able to keep shipping alive on the Baltic?
Its an amusing thing, this Austerity for sure. But just as Europeans look at the USA and its politics and problems and just say why is it so hard and crap, there is just so much involved and so much they dont see with the USA. In many ways the actual amount of Austerity being discussed is small and somewhat in limited number of states. It in some ways could be compared to the Oregon Health Plan of years gone by. Under the protection or under the system the Federal Govt had, Oregon took matters into its own hands. Its the same thing in the EU. If France somehow implements some form of Austerity, or Greece it is not going to change the overall picture and social climate of other member states that much. The interest of the other states is only to see how they can help. I think Germany is taking a good stance on alot of this by saying to states like Greece, hey you are waaaay over the accept spending levels so before you get y you need to fix x.
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